Subscriber Jerry recently commented:
From what I understand, there is no argument for atheism. If an atheist is asked why anything exists, they have no coherent reply. I have searched several arguments on why atheists believe what they do and have found none that actually defend atheism. Their main argument is the supposed absurdity of specific religions.
There certainly are arguments for atheism. (Whether they are successful, of course, is up for debate). Before I survey just a few of these arguments, here is something I think is extremely important: Understanding what the position opposite of you actually holds. Unfortunately, it is fairly common among theists and atheists to have painfully little understanding of the position that is not their own and, because of this, they often caricature the other side or dismiss it on grounds that are quite unjustified. How good is your position, really, if it has never been tested but is utilized only to knock down the flimsiest of strawmen? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to believe anything that isn’t rigorous, and the only way to know if something you believe is rigorous is to try your hardest to knock it down or have somebody else try to.
Obviously – obviously! – I am no apologist for atheism. But as someone who spent many years as an atheist, trying to make good philosophical sense of things, I can fairly say that I understand the atheist perspective, particularly metaphysical naturalism. I know what atheists say, because I read their works about questions of existence, consciousness, rationality, morality, etc. And, as it happens, I often find their work instructive, helpful, and interesting, even if, ultimately, I disagree with considerable amounts of it. I have profited in various ways – always have – from reading people who majorly disagree with me, not only on matters of metaphysics or philosophy of religion, but politics as well. I have had my views changed and refined because of intelligent critics and believe I am substantially better off for it. I used to be a libertarian atheist. Now I am a conservative (in the truly traditional sense) Catholic.
I say all of this not to disparage but to encourage. Of course, it takes bravery to face up to intelligent opposition. What if you face an objection you cannot (at this moment) overcome? What if your worldview falls apart? What if you wind up spinning frictionlessly off into the void? My answer to this? Been there, done that, my friend. All of it. But hey: Nobody said philosophy was easy or even that it cannot be downright terrifying at times. My only advice is if you persist and focus intensely on getting at the truth of things, I think there is reason to be optimistic. Just also be unrelenting.
OK, sermon ended. Let’s now look at arguments for atheism.
While this is by no means exhaustive, one might at least begin to map the territory as follows.
First, there are arguments against the coherence of theism. Second, there are arguments for the superiority of naturalism with respect to explanatory comprehensiveness or simplicity or both.
In the first category, one finds all manner of paradoxes raised against different notions of God. In effect, these arguments aim to show that some absurdity or contradictory state of affairs is raised either just internally to the notion of God (think omnipotence paradoxes: Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?) or by putting some understanding of God up against some undeniable fact of the world, for example, God as perfectly good as the foundation of a world where there is immense suffering. Ultimately, arguments in this first category are meant to prove, presumably in a definitive way, that God does not exist. And believe me, there are many arguments to consider here.
I do not - again, obviously - think any of these arguments are successful; I consider the most pressing in my book, for those interested. But they are certainly arguments for atheism, not just against some particular religion, and they are arguments that are taken seriously by brilliant minds on both sides of the debate.
The second category, interestingly enough, is actually the launching point of my book The Best Argument for God, where I initially consider what many consider – that is, apart from the problem of evil – the best argument against God. It goes something like this:
If two theories explain just as much, believe the simpler.
Atheism and theism explain just as much; atheism is simpler.
So, believe atheism.
Again – obviously! – I don’t think this argument wins the day. But I do think it is a serious argument, when actually defended by serious atheists. That is why I spent an entire book not only trying to break it but to positively reverse it into the following:
Atheism can only explain some, but not all, of what theism can, but only when strapped with loads more complexity. So, believe theism.
In fact, I wanted to focus on this argument because it creates the opportunity to dive significantly into each respective worldview and see what sorts of explanations they offer for all the relevant, largely agreed-upon data that a worldview is supposed to explain, from contingency, to consciousness, to rationality, to morality, to suffering, etc. Also, to consider the theoretical virtue of simplicity.
Obviously (how many times am I going to say this?), I’m just giving an outline of how the debate sometimes goes; I’m not trying to settle it. But I don’t think theists should be saying there are no arguments for atheism, any more than atheists should be saying there are no arguments or theism. There are, quite obviously (there I go again), arguments for both theism and atheism. The question - the only really interesting question, to my mind - is which side has the better of them?
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I have been off and on thinking about the topic of atheism for awhile which is what initially attracted me to your book, "The Best Argument for God."
In the comments above, I make the argument that those who support atheism and use the basis for their beliefs arguments against a specific creator or a specific religion or religion in general are committing a logical fallacy, the non sequitur fallacy. So when time allows I look for other arguments for atheism anywhere I can. So far I have not found a coherent argument for atheism. Which leaves by logic, that there aren't any and by process of elimination that something caused existence. There is no reason to accept as serious anyone who espouses atheism but one can certainly be polite in saying there is no basis for supporting it.
One of the websites I visited was "Closer To Truth" and there was a recent interview with someone named Richard Swinburne who claimed to be an expert on the subject of religion. He was a disaster for his claims as he too was incoherent most of. the time. I almost felt it was a setup to have such a bad presentation by someone arguing against those who say there is no creator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYbibaV4AXU&t=2s
But in the process, the author of the site, Robert Leonard Kuhn, said he asked his best questions to support atheism. He should know since he has been studying it for over 20 years. Every single argument in support of a atheism by Kuhn is against a specific type of creator not in support of atheism as viable. In other words an intellectual such as Kuhn commits the non-sequitur fallacy numerous times. Here they are:
1. Top of the list problem is evil
2. God is hidden
3. God is a disembodied mind and we have never seen any instance of mind or Consciousness other than with embodied brains
4. Another argument for the non-existence of God is the violence in the universe
5. How about the wastefulness of the universe? All this activity, it seems so inefficient if human beings are the object of of this whole thing.
6. How about Steven weinberg's famous comment that the more the universe seems comprehensible the more it also seems pointless
7. How about the religious contradictions all the different religions in the world with hosts of different doctrines which fight with each other doesn't this show the non-existence of God?
8. What about religious wars when different religions fight with each other doesn't that show the absurdity of the existence of a god supposedly behind all of these
9. Scholars would say that every fundamental scripture of every major religion either has overt contradictions within them or flagrantly misstates some facts of the world or science or something so so doesn't that invalidate any Revelation from a God in any Scripture
10 . If one looks at church history and some of the things that they have espoused they seem a lot worse than stuff that's in the Bible
Well that's my atheistic list what do you think of the totality of it
Swinburne had no good answer for any of these overly irrelevant questions.
After seeing this, I am even more convinced that atheism has no good answer for the question "Why Does Anything Exist?" So treating it as a serious worldview seems at best specious. By the way Kuhn says multiple times that the question of existence is the one that has haunted him from childhood and the reason he created Closer To Truth. This site contains information on physics, biology, consciousness and meaning.
This is why I point out above that the argument for a Deism is an argument for a creator but one than is immune to any of Kuhn's questions. I personally do not support Deism but it immediately gets rid on any objection an atheist makes.
The next step after establishing a creator is to make an argument for the characteristics of this creator. You book does a good job of this.
Aside: If a site, especially a YouTube site, discusses atheism, the atheists are out in numbers and act very confidently for their position though I have never seen one justify their position. I also saw this a couple of years ago on a New York Times webpage about belief. One after another the atheists denounced those with faith in God but not one had an answer for anything. It is just all denouncing as stupid those who believe. And the problem is that those who believe do not provide any rational arguments for their beliefs that are easily understandable.
Thank you for answering my comment but I believe you just made my point!
You have not provided evidence that contradicts the idea that there is an entity that created the universe or other universes if there are any. (I know you do not believe there are any, but you should be aware of them if there are any.)
Deism is a form of theism in which, supposedly, this creator has no further interaction with this universe. It was quite popular at one time among intellectuals. Deists make no conclusions about this universe other than that this entity/creator created it, and the entity must have had lots of intellect and power.
But just what is this entity like? There is no immediate conclusion that its intellect or power has to be unlimited. You immediately assume contradictions, such as a rock too big to lift, which are meaningless in the presence of a mighty but limited creator. These are silly arguments and are not worthy of any consideration.
There is no expected interaction in deism, so arguments from evil are meaningless. Supposedly, the entity does not care about what happens. The argument from evil targets a specific type of creator.
If this deist wanted or expected change, the idea of natural selection would lead to states where certain variations deteriorate and do not survive. Change and some dilution of capacity are expected. So, we eliminated one of the reasons Aquinas said there may be no creator. (by the way, natural selection is a tautological idea - because if something persists, it is an example of natural selection)
The atheist cannot explain why anything exists. If he can, what are they? I have not seen any, but you have read much more, yet you present none. Why?
So, I firmly stand by my point, which is clear to me. The atheist struggles to explain the existence of anything. Introducing a creator as an explanation is straightforward. While many may refuse to accept such an entity, their refusal indicates their lack of seriousness and lack of coherent argument against a creator.
So, to sum up, I am willing to consider any explanation for atheism, but I have not seen any. A dislike of general or specific theist positions is not an argument.
Once atheism has been eliminated as a possibility, it is open season for investigating the characteristics of this creator. A lot of this goes on in your book, but it should be separated from whether there is a creator in the first place.